Introduction
Hey listeners! Welcome to another episode of Brown Girls Read podcast. This is your host Daman Tiwana and this is Khyati Thakur, and both of us love reading books. On this podcast, we bring our favorite books to you, and discuss the parts that were most meaningful to us and how we found them interesting or relatable as brown girls.
Today, we are discussing Ikigai by Hector Garcia. Before we begin our discussion, Khyati let’s give our listeners an overview of the book?
Ikigai is a Japanese word that roughly translates to “the happiness of always being busy”. This book is more of an introduction to a variety of different topics including : logotherapy, longevity, flow, tai chi, yoga, meditation and so on. And what effect it has on your happiness and how they could help you find your purpose.
When we decided to read this book I was super excited because I have been seeing that venn diagram of Ikigai for a while now, where they show an overlap between things you are good at, things that give you meaning, things that can pay you well, and things that the world needs and I have been very curious about that tiny overlap– like how do you find that one thing that fits it all…
One of the very first sentences in the book is “According to the Japanese, everyone has an Ikigai. Some people have found their Ikigai while others are still looking for it“
I think I have always believed in this concept of ikigai even when I didn’t know the word for it. Because I have always believed that every one, each and every person in this world has something that they get out of bed in the morning for. Although I have found through my personal experiences that it is not easy to find your ikigai. And you might never find it in your lifetime.
According to the Japanese, everyone has an ikigai. Having a clearly defined ikigai brings satisfaction, happiness, and meaning to our lives. There is, in fact, no word in Japanese that means retire in the sense of “leaving the workforce for good” — I found that really interesting!! Like the world we live in is all about working hard so one day you can retire with a good amount of money.
Yes, you’re right. But I think this was more like the idea of the generation before ours. Like our parent’s generation used to think , they have to work hard till 60 and then retire. And the whole point of finding your ikigai is that you don’t feel like you are working, your work seems like fun because you enjoy it. And when you have found something like that, you don’t want to “retire” I would guess.
Yeah you’re absolutely right… Then they discuss the keys to longevity are diet, exercise, finding a purpose in life (an ikigai), and forming strong social ties—that is, having a broad circle of friends and good family relations— it’s not something new but I think reiteration of this is still important.
So, first of all, I don’t know why people are so obsessed with living longer. I don’t want to live for a long time. Already this life is so demotivating and difficult to spend, and here people are ..who want to live for 120 years!
I def do not… I think for the longest time I used to think 60 is good enough.. But now I feel maybe 70-75.. So maybe as we grow older, we will keep extending that mental finish line hence the longevity thing!
Secondly, although I do not want to live for a long time, I completely agree with what is said in the book. That keeping your mind exercised is as important as physical exercise. This is why it is so important to step outside of your comfort zone. On that note, what was the last thing that you did that took you out of your comfort zone?
I think that has to be the new thing that we started together- our YouTube videos.
What is not good for ageing is – stress. It was surprising for me to know that the brain associates a ping of a cell phone or an email notification with the threat of a predator. Actually, now that I think about it, maybe that’s why I keep my phone on silent now. Subconsciously I was noticing anxiety in myself whenever I heard the ping.
I read a book called indistractable by Nir eyal recently and he talks about this a lot– how devices are stressful without us realizing. Also, our sensory organs taking in information all the time is some sort of stress even if we are not actively engaging.. Like being in front of screens all day, or being in loud noisy places… our twenties are basically high stress years lmao, and in our thirties we learn…] and then there’s also physiological stress that wears our bodies at an accelerated pace.
How to reduce stress – by practicing mindfulness. Can be achieved through meditation, yoga, and body scans.
One thing I really like was the 80 percent secret: which means fill your belly to 80 percent only. Something that I have a hard time doing. Actually, in this quarantine life, I think I have been living completely opposite to that principle – I have been eating 80% more after I fill my belly!
Me too! When I read that I was like, if there is one thing that I am taking away from this book, it is this. When you notice you’re almost full but could have a little more . . . just stop eating! I’m trying to implement this. We are so fed by images of overeating being a sign of food appreciation that the idea of eating less sounds almost absurd I think.
So, there are some interesting therapies mentioned in the book that claim that they can help you find your purpose. One is logotherapy and the other one is Morita therapy.
Logotherapy helps you find your reasons to live and in turn helps you to find your purpose.It pushes patients to consciously discover their life’s purpose in order to confront their neuroses. Their quest to fulfill their destiny, in turn, pushes them forward.
I find this concept intriguing. But, to me, and I am no expert in this, it seemed like logotherapy is based around – okay so this happened to you that made you depressed or extremely sad. But can you imagine, if instead this, even worse things had happened to you? What would you do then?
And that’s how your mind becomes calm. And I won’t lie but I have used this before on my own. And I am sure everyone has at some point. Like, for instance, sometimes I am like, okay so there was no electricity today at home but at least I didn’t die.
Victor Frankl, the founder of logotherapy, once defined logotherapy as ““Well, in logotherapy the patient sits up straight and has to listen to things that are, on occasion, hard to hear.” Have you read his book? I would absolutely recommend that to everyone out there— it helps you see what matters, and that so much of what we fixate on is not even what we really want or value. Logotherapy basically pushes people to consciously discover their life’s purpose, which gives meaning to lives and motivates them to get past any hurdles.
I love the idea of logotherapy— how it challenges you to get better and do better and find a meaning for yourself. When I was reading this, I actually looked up logo therapists around us, but didn’t find any good results.
The other one, Morita therapy is related to accepting your feelings, being in the present and doing what you should be doing and in the process, discovering your life’s purpose.
I feel like, for the past few years, I have been doing exactly that. I mean I haven’t found my life’s purpose yet ..but we ll get there.
And, accepting our feelings and being mindful and present can help us process things and figure ourselves out… It can help us answer questions that help discover ikigai.. Like What makes us enjoy doing something so much that we forget about whatever worries we might have while we do it? When are we happiest? Is my Ikigai Reading? OMG are we inching closer to it with our podcast?
Hahhaha … actually, you know, when people used to talk about their talents and in my mind, I used to think, my only real talent in life is reading. I just love reading random books. But last year I started thinking about how I can put my one and only talent to use. And then this idea was born. But yeah, I think we might have taken the first steps towards our ikigai! hopefully
He also mentions a state of flow here, based on a book named the same— what the book is trying to tell us about how if we are in that zone where we enjoy what we are doing while challenging ourselves, that’s where we are gonna be most activated mentally.
Yeah he mentions these 7 conditions for achieving this kind of flow
- Knowing what to do
- Knowing how to do it
- Knowing how well you are doing
- Knowing where to go
- Perceiving significant challenges
- Perceiving significant skills
- Being free from distraction
- Although I think the last one is kind of a bigger thing now-a-days. Distractions are everywhere around us. Social media distractions specially are the worst.
- I also liked this statement – having a clear objective is important to achieve flow. But we also have to know how to not obsess about it. So basically the idea is to challenge yourself without getting bored or without getting anxious.
- I like this quote in the book – “the happiest people are not the ones who achieve the most. They are the ones who spend more time than others in a state of flow”
Then he also mentions a concept called microflow …Our ability to turn routine tasks into moments of microflow, into something we enjoy, is key to our being happy, since we all have to do such tasks. I LOVED THIS! Bringing awareness to a small bit of our day-to-day life, and making small changes there is eventually what brings us closer to our bigger goals. It all liest in the atomic habits! Even Bill Gates washes the dishes every night. He says he enjoys it—that it helps him relax and clear his mind, and that he tries to do it a little better each day, following an established order or set of rules he’s made for himself: plates first, forks second, and so on. I really loved this bit— I think we all shirk away from these mundane tasks and hope someone else will pick the, up, instead of being responsible adults who would pull their weight and be a team together. It really puts unnecessary weight on your partner or family if you are not contributing.
That’s right. Also, sometimes, just focussing on a task that doesn’t require you to think so much can be so relaxing.
The book talks a lot about longevity and There are interviews with few people who are over 100 years old— and they offer a range of advice from not eating meat, staying busy, learning to relax, sleep more… How many boxes do you check off Khyati?
Well, let’s see .. I stopped eating meat this year. And all the rest of the things I was doing already. I guess I am going to live for a long long time .. dammit!
In all seriousness, it felt vague to me because there’s so much more than lifestyle choices that decides who lives longer— like genetics and the sheer randomness of the universe.. I could be in a road accident, who knows! Don,t think my non-meat-eater lifestyle would help there I guess.. longevity is something I don’t think I personally fixate on. Like the famous saying goes, it’s not about the number of days in your life, but the life in your days— that’s something I believe in..
When it comes to old age, I especially see the value of community. Like for my own parents I sometimes feel that they might be lonely now that kids have moved out and also because they don’t put effort in making their own hobbies (a lot also comes from culture that earlier people stayed with families and that’s changing now) so I feel having good neighbors or relatives close by is really important.
Yeah, community plays such a huge role in happiness. Not only during old age, I think even at our age, we do look for social connections and we do look for broadening our community. And I just think, in countries like India, community is just organically growing for you. Not so much here in the US.
Celebrations seem to be an essential part of life in Ogimi. Another thing I can see in our culture as well, which I feel we have sort of walked away from especially being immigrants. Like no holiday for Diwali, no help to prepare elaborate meals or decorate houses.. and also lack of bigger families or communities.
Right. Well, that is why I think so many Indians, when they first move to the US, go into depression. I, personally, have dealt with the loneliness and the sadness of having no one around for a long long time. And when I talked about it with my American friends, they didn’t understand it. They love living alone. And we, as immigrants, miss our community and our families and that life where we can just talk to anyone and everyone around us and they won’t even find it strange.
After the role of community, they discuss the longevity diet… Reading about food was actually making me sad— so much of the focus waS on fresh food whether fruits and vegetables or meat.. and we live in a country with highly processed and frozen foods.. we are so far away from the fresh food that all I can think of is moving someplace where this isn’t the reality of the food I consume,
And obviously following diet, they talk about exercise: The people who live longest are not the ones who do the most exercise but rather the ones who move the most. Again something that I probably knew coz we have heard so much already of the side effects of sitting too much.
Reading this reminded me of how our lifestyle doesn’t allow much movement.. yes we can get standing desks if our companies support that but that’s again not really the same as moving.. and we sit all day then come home and sit some more… how many breaks can I take just to increase my step count.. that has to be woven into lifestyle.. and that’s the part I can’t figure out really.. yeah some small changes like walk around when on phone meetings or something.. but a big chunk is still sitting.. our jobs tend to be more mentally draining, but we get tired all the same and end up being couch potatoes
I agree to that. Sometimes, I get tired of sitting all day long on 1 chair. That’s why I think just doing some gym is my only solace here.
I like the radio Taiso exercises mentioned in the book.. easy and simple, basically urging to move arms.. they make a great point that with computers and everything we are just not moving our arms .. we hardly ever put them above our shoulders and that impacts the mobility .. I’m gonna try to include it in my day, even if for just 5 minutes. They also mention surya namaskar or sun salutations.. feels good to see Indian things represented here, with yoga n all.. have you done surya namaskar..?I love surya namaskars. I used to do 108 every day back in college. I sometimes still do it. It is very effective actually to build strength and endurance at the same time. I don’t really like it… maybe it takes some getting used to and I give up sooner.
Around the time I was reading this, I also saw a post somewhere.. about how we as humans have lost the skill to squat on our 2 feet and balance our bodies like that.. and I felt like that’s so true.. with the need to appear civilized and to rise up to standards of colonizers, people stopped squatting on their feet, Indian toilets are less common clearly.. and I remember my dad used to make fun of us growing up, how we can’t sit in that position… we were obviously offended and embarrassed by him then, but now I think there is something to it.. like you see these old men and women who can easily sit like that.. more like a grandparents generation.. about parents generation, everyone has knee problems and I fear we are headed in the same direction.
Brownie points
- I love that ikigai took such a complex task of finding a purpose, and explained it in such an easy way that is so enjoyable to read.
- I also love that they focussed on finding a purpose but they also said that the whole point to living your life is not to worry about it. I am someone who has obsessed over finding their purpose for so long, as I am sure so many people out there have done as well, and I have realized that ikigai is just like love. You won’t find it if you’re obsessing over it. So just put your head down, relax and just keep doing the things that you like to – this is my biggest take away from the book
- They interviewed 100 people and the common themes were : Don’t worry, cultivate good habits, nurturing friendships, living an unhurried life, being optimistic. reading these interviews was easily my favorite part. Get the book just to read these anecdotes. Chapter 6, don’t miss it
- (-) I think that I didn’t understand – the obsession over longevity of life. But I have already said that before. Me either!
- (-) I found a lot of stuff was repetitive in the sense that I already had read about these things or knew about some.. And also my expectations played a role that I was hoping this book will help me inch closer to ikigai but damn it looks like i’m on my own!
Conclusion
So this was our discussion on the book Ikigai by Hector Garcia. We definitely encourage you guys to pick it up, it’s an easy and interesting read and gives you a lot to think about. And in the end I’LL READ A SHORT POEM FROM THE BOOK FOR YOU!
To keep healthy and have a long life,
eat just a little of everything with relish,
go to bed early, get up early, and then go out for a walk.
We live each day with serenity and we enjoy the journey.
To keep healthy and have a long life,
we get on well with all of our friends.
Spring, summer, fall, winter, we happily enjoy all the seasons.
The secret is to not get distracted by how old the fingers are;
from the fingers to the head and back once again.
If you keep moving with your fingers working,
100 years will come to you.*
Ikigai Book
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For our next episode we’re reading a collection of short stories called Difficult Women by Roxanne Gay. We hope you’ll be reading with us and until then, Keep listening!
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